It will happen if enough voters make it clear to their elected representatives that they want them to repeal the laws passed after 9/11 that mandate the security screening that TSA does. I agree that's highly unlikely, but it was voters who clamored for those laws in the first place after 9/11, so it's voters that need to push for getting them repealed.
When entering China, they take your fingerprints, iris, and I guess face too... I was there in 2019, at one point I was at an airport, and a screen was bragging, "Stand where the camera can see your face, and we'll tell you which way to your gate.". It worked too, the screen displayed my name, flight number and direction to my gate. And implicitly, "We can identify you wherever you are.".
I was in China a few years ago, didn't take fingerprints, iris, or face recognition. Just a routine passport check and that's it. I flew from Europe to Beijing, might be different if you fly from the US.
Travel by plane/DMV applications normalized fingerprinting.
What’s next? Semen and blood samples as well?
The terrorists have won. Fear has ruled the major powers of the world. And the current major power of the free world is a puppet and an all around idiot.
For this to work they must have already done facial recognition on everyone’s ID photos, so I fail to see what opting out even does for me from a privacy perspective. Seems like shutting the barn door after the horse is already out.
Indeed, not to mention the availability of public social media photos. To think that every intelligence agency on earth hasn’t already trained FR across their databases of IDs and material voluntarily uploaded by themselves and their family/friends…
One reason I left Facebook early on was that I didn’t like getting tagged in photos the next morning after everyone would get home from parties. Too bad for me, as long as you have a friend who don’t value your privacy, there is nothing you can do about it.
Add to this any public event, where they are well within their rights to take your picture and match it against known threat actors and the only way to not play this game is to be a hermit
> One reason I left Facebook early on was that I didn’t like getting tagged in photos the next morning after everyone would get home from parties. Too bad for me, as long as you have a friend who don’t value your privacy, there is nothing you can do about it.
I hated this too, but there was an option to disable it. I know because I used it for that very reason. I don't know if they removed it; I left Facebook probably around a decade ago and it was there when I left.
The current program in limited beta test is called "TSA PreCheck Touchless".
So you need to be in TSA PreCheck, and you gave them your photo and fingerprints when you voluntarily enrolled in that program. They are probably using your passport biometrics if those are available as well.
There is only one sort of person who signs up to check internal passports and search innocent people, and I don’t care what color shirt they’re wearing these days.
Making it a requirement sounds like some project manager has a KPI to hit to justify the expense of the hardware rollout. Maybe a stretch since I doubt most people opted out anyway.
Either that or they took a page out of the big tech playbook where the plan was to boil the frog all along.
And the senators’ letter quotes a talk given by TSA Administrator David Pekoske in 2023 in which he said “we will get to the point where we require biometrics across the board.”
As opposed to hoping the TSA agent doesn't properly proof you to your government credential you hand them? The data is already there, in state motor vehicle databases, and various federal databases. If you have Global Entry or PreCheck, your biometrics are already on file. The Dept of State has your photo associated with your passport, as does the DoD Common Access Card system.
I was shocked to see this program arrive in my local airport. I opt out every time, but the horrifying thing is that almost everyone simply complies with whatever is asked of them. The TSA agents use phrasing that make it seem like you are supposed to go through the facial recognition process and don’t have a choice. Yes, there are tiny signs scattered around that say you can opt out. But when the officer says “step in front of the camera”, most people comply with what seems like orders from a legal authority.
TSA will punish you for opting out of anything. If you're lucky, the least they will do is hold you up a long time so you have a good chance of missing your flight. I've also had them sexually harass me, and confiscate (e.g. steal) legal items in retaliation for opting out of things I had the legal right to opt out of. They know people are in a hurry and won't do anything about being treated unethically or illegally, because calling them out would require missing your flight.
When I opted out of the scanner once, I had to wait about 20 minutes, and then the TSA agent comes over to do a "pat down" instead, but is going inappropriately slow and squeezing my body, and saying things like "I'd bet you opted out because you like this." I regret not immediately calling them out and filing charges.
I always opt out of the scanner (even have a special shirt [1]), and without fail they always stand me by the intake (radio-leaky-end) of the baggage x-ray machine for 5+ minutes.
Generally speaking you present ID to pass through security.
The facial recognition is based on the biometric data collected when you got your ID, the ID you presented to pass through security. The ID with your name, address, date of birth, and uniquely identifying number on it. The ID which is associated with your boarding pass. The ID they scan (or they scan the boarding pass which is associated with your ID) prior to letting you through security.
Using facial recognition changes nothing, absolutely nothing, except that it reduces the amount of time spent at the checkpoint.
It does not grant anyone access to any information they do not already have.
It does not impede the traveler in any way.
It does not change, at all, any aspect of one's privacy whatsoever.
"But I don't wanna..." doesn't seem like a defensible position.
> the biometric data collected when you got your ID
When I got my license, which I can use to board a flight in my country I did not give fingerprints or an eye scan. They have my photo, DOB, name - not more.
Maybe I’m old school but I despise the idea of the government tracking me as I travel. Time and time again they are caught violating privacy laws and abusing power.
Given that you already need government issued ID that matches the name printed on your ticket to travel on an airplane, wouldn’t the government already have the ability to track you, regardless of facial recognition?
Indeed, the government doesn't even need the ID, they ingest a data feed of Passenger Name Records (PNRs) from all airlines. This is why when TSA performs the automated identity proofing, comparing a photo of you to your ID, they don't require that you provide a boarding pass.
Comparing an ephemeral photo taken of you to your government credential at the TSA checkpoint is a temporary formality. At some point, the government credential presentation will be unnecessary.
Every state id picture is run through facial recognition, and that data is processed to detect duplicate people and other issues. Every passport has a picture which is digitized for facial recognition.
This is a good thing, as it potentially disarms the stupid RealID fiasco with respect to ID and airports.
There is no privacy benefit to document validation.
What do you think opting out does exactly? For the system to work they must already have your photo associated with your name and ID. And even if you opt out they’re still tracking your movement. It seems like an impotent protest so I don’t bother.
People just want to get through an incredibly annoying experience as fast as possible, and they know the people behind them want this too. Doesn’t excuse the bullshit, but it’s much less of a dramatic “sheep bowing to authority” than made out to be here.
This is it. I don't think I've opted out of it. I know I can but I know the agent is going to make a big deal of it and the line is already long for everyone behind me so whatever lets just get through it.
Nah. In my experience when you opt out, they say “Okay,” scan your ID the same way they’ve been doing for 20 years, and you get through in the same time.
If they want to entice us with convenience, the facial recognition should allow you to just stroll through without talking to anyone.
Serious question: why is this bad? Is it just the 3% false negative rate? I don't see the negative privacy implications of face recognition when the alternative is to present your face (via photo ID) anyway.
I enjoy traveling to Berlin for vacation, as it's a totally different atmosphere around privacy. Default payment is cash, your entry and exit from train stations is not tracked (surveilled perhaps, but you do not tap-in/tap-out or god forbid tap your credit card every time you step on a train like SF or NYC), and it's against the law to publish photographs of someone without their consent.
Ask IBM what becomes of databases full of people's names associated with their movements.
I mean, it was living memory for many HN'ers that you could travel freely in the United States with doing either. It's a post-9/11 thing that an airline ticket is associated with a unique person, and requires a matching photo ID.
There was a time when America's security forces did not routinely surveil its own peoples' movements.
(American here) A quick search shows Pew Research, National Academies Press (associated with the Library Of Congress), AmericaUnderWatch dot com, Politico and Georgetown Law .. all with varying responses to this question. In the case of social structure and law, there are many layers, interwoven, and difficult or impossible to fit into chat-level responses.
That will never happen. The long lines and inconveniences are the point, not a side effect.
How many shoe bombers does the TSA catch in a day? 0. In a month? 0. Since the only shoe bomber? 0. We still take off our shoes. Same with underwear bombs. 0. We still partially undress and do the nude-a-tron.
The point is, we could already ditch the lines, we don't want to.
“For any amount convenience, it’s okay to discriminate against people based on any collection of facts, including ones you can see on their face like their heritage, so long as none of those facts are mine.”
I also can't see the tracking difference between a human verifying your identity and entering that into a database and a computer verifying your identity and entering that into a database.
But it's still a valid concern as to whether or not this new system is at least as secure and privacy-respecting as the old one.
Automation and scale? You can't imagine how technology that allows a small number of people to automatically surveil billions of people can enable horrors that would be more difficult if you needed to use a labor force of hundreds of thousands of humans?
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